Another Look At Women in Ministry
(NIV) 1 Timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
(KJV) 1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(NASB) 1 Timothy 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
(ESV) 1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
These 4 versions are the most widely used for Bible study. (There are others as well and if you have a favorite, I am sure it will show the same as you see above.) It cannot be denied what Paul states here. So we have 3 choices to make when reading this passage.
1) There is only one explanation - women are prohibited to have authority and to teach men.
2) Paul contradicts himself and so the Bible is translated incorrectly
3) A broader deeper look must be made in order to gain understanding from our exegesis of the passage.
Many of you will choose #1 and will stand firm on it. That is OK. I ask that you would keep an open mind on what I try and show here but if not, you are still my brother or sister in Christ and I still love you and we still both believe in His gospel. I think you may be missing out on some wonderful, powerful, and valid teaching and preaching on His Word by gifted women of God, but again, it is not a devisive or salvific point of opposition.
I think most of you are on the same page and have eliminated #2. If not, that is OK but is a topic for a different discussion.
So that leaves number 3. I am stating some guidelines and some core beliefs so that you can fully understand from where I am coming.
To start, I believe there is no errancy or mistranslation of the following scripture: (NIV) 2 Timothy 2:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(If this is a point of contention for you than we probably will not agree on anything having to do with Biblical interpretation.) The all, includes Old Testament.
For the sake of this discussion, it is also important to understand these definitions as well. Universal command means that it is the same for all situations, cultures, and time. Pastoral command, guideline or request means that it is specific to a stated issue, church, culture, time period, or combinations of any of those situations.
For example, you would agree that Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. is a Universal command?
In Philemon 22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers. you can easily see this is Pastoral. If not, then you better go find Philemon's house and prepare a room for Paul.
I used some very easy examples as a way of understanding the point I am trying to make. They need to be understood because it makes a difference in how you might view Paul's writings on this topic.
I have already done a fairly extensive study on the historical and cultural factors which may have effected this passage and you can read those in a previous post,
https://holymackeralbatman.blogspot.com/2017/02/1-timothy-212-short-exploration-by.html
but for the sake of time and space I will not revisit all of what I posted there.
Unless other is needed, for the most part I will use the NIV (New International Version 2011) for scriptural references. In my hermeneutics I will be asking the questions: Is this Universal, or this Pastoral? In any exegesis, if there are other writings by the author, (and as we know Paul wrote most of the New Testament so there is not a short supply) we must examine them as well.
OK. So what are the flags in the 1 Timothy 2 passage that motivates me to take a bigger look? Well, I went into greater detail with the previously mentioned post; however, it was the first and loudest, flag for me. The Greek word Paul uses for authority in this passage is authentein. It is not used anywhere else in the Bible to describe or define authority. The typical word used by both Paul and Jesus Christ is exousia. Authentein, in the Koine Greek, is the negative use of authority, ie abusive or usurping authority. This starts to raise questions when you understand that the culture surrounding the church in Ephesus had strong matriarchal undertones along with the practice of women domineering men, emotionally, physically, and often sexually. This however, is not yet enough to depose the traditional prohibition of women having leadership positions in the church. In order to determine the universality of the passage we must look at other churches to whom Paul has written. I can say without a doubt that Paul did not want women to take abusive authority over men in ANY church, but I can also say that Paul did not want men to take an abusive authority over women in the church. He, in his letter to the Ephesians, commanded the men to love their wives as Christ loved the church and Christ never abuses the church.
Lets look at the letter he sent to the Corinthian church. This letter is often used as support for the prohibitionary view. So we must have due diligence and look at it as well.
1 Corinthians 11:1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. 2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. 7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
I posted the whole passage. Hopefully, you will see why. The first thing I want to point out is in verse 5. Women were allowed to prophesy in Paul's churches. This means that they were prophets. Prophets both forth tell and foretell. I ask you, if God called a woman to be a prophet, which He obviously did, would He not give her the authority that comes along with speaking His words? Is there authority for a prophet? Male or female? Deborah was a judge and a prophetess. Judges 4-5 We know that the judges had authority and we know that the prophets had authority. It was that God given authority that made the people listen. Miriam, sister to Moses and Aaron, was also a prophetess (see Ex 15:20). So we can clearly state that prophets, male or female, were given authority and Paul allowed that.
Now since this passage is often used as a support for the prohibition of women in ministry we must look at the universality of it. Please be very aware that Universal is defined as holding true in every situation regardless of culture, people, economics, physical condition, environment, AND time. It is all inclusive. If we take that stance, then cancer patients who pray, or patients who have undergone brain surgery, etc., if they are female and their heads were shaved, they disgrace, their covering. Either, their husbands, or fathers, or whomever is to be defined as their cover. In the same token, soldiers on the battle front, who take time to pray while bombs falling and bullets flying, must remove their helmets to pray or they disgrace the Lord Jesus Christ. It also means that all the hippies (long haired men) all the yuppies (short haired women) disgraced God when they prayed. Really? It means as well, that women must wear hat or a scarf, or a bonnet when praying. It also means that men must take off their hats, dew rags, helmets, bandannas, and possibly when praying. IN AND UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. That is what a Universal definition of this passage would entail.
An interesting flip side to that thought would mean that women who prophesied in the church would be allowed to prophesy in any church including the church at Ephesus which was pastored by Timothy. This really throws a wrench in the "Universal" mix. Because under the auspices of Universal command, women were given authority in the Corinthian church to be prophetesses but could not have the authority to do so in the Ephesian church; therefore, Paul, contradicts himself which means that the Bible, the Word of God, contradicts itself. I don't think so.
I would maintain that these scriptural passages were Pastoral. Direction given to specific churches and their leaders for specific circumstances. Please don't mistake me. I am not stating that women are commanded to lead. I am stating that they are not forbidden from leading. I think that the Biblical discussions support and address most of leadership as being male, but I also firmly believe that women are not prohibited to lead, have authority, and teach men and women in the church.
So let's look at the Pastoral argument. Historically, we know that the church in Ephesus had an influx of believers who were steeped in the practices of women who dominated men, politically, emotionally, and physically as part of their culture. The women under this cultural upbringing thought they also because of his age and gender, thought that they could confront and defy Timothy as the pastor. If we were to see this as a Paul giving pastoral direction to both Timothy and the church in Ephesus it seems to align better with the rest of his writings. Certainly Paul did not want these practices to spread to other churches but they were not specifically addressed in his other letters.
The Corinthian church had other specific problems that Paul needed to address as well. In the case of women. The fashion of dress, as is the case even in today's society, was driven by the rich. Well the richest women in Corinth were the Temple prostitutes and they had a habit of advertising the way they dressed. The sex slaves that they employed in their trade also had a way of showing their availability. Short hair for women was one of the most common. Paul was trying to bring a sense of propriety in how the church was represented by its members and how they prayed and worshiped publicly. Is Paul in verse 3 also establishing a hierarchy? 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. I believe he is but we must be careful in how we look at this hierarchy as well. If we take it as a direct vertical linearity, we bring confusion from verses 11 and 12 in that passage. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. So how can we see that Paul is not contradicting himself? Ephesians 5 seems to support this as well. 1 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Paul uses the word "wife or wives" in this passage as well as husbands and is talking about that particular relationship and how it reflects the relationship to Christ and His Bride, the Church. I don't see it as a directive for male only dominance in leadership of the church. I do see men as being established as leaders in their households. Again, if we take the universal stance, it presents more problems than if we understand the pastoral and look through those eyes.
We must be careful when we attach the universal to all things in the text. Not every command is to be considered universal so we must also be careful how we use it. It is not a switch to be used whenever we want to apply it. The same goes for pastoral. We can't say that the 10 commandments were just pastoral and good only for the Old Testament Israel, which is a pastoral type of argument. They are universal. There are many things in scripture which are universal and all of the reason and thought behind the pastoral correction is universal.
Another look can be had if you do a word search on the Pauline epistles for the phrase "do not." You will find listings for both "I do not" as well as "do not." If you apply the Universal versus Pastoral command definitions to your findings you have some food for thought.
There is further discussion to be had on this topic and more debate to come forward. I only touched briefly on some of the big questions that are apparent. I did not want to cover all in this post because of the length and detail that the study requires; however. in the future, I will also post more as I delve further into it and as questions arise and I explore and learn more.
As with all things, I ask that you would seek first the guidance of the Holy Spirit and then read His Word for yourself. Blessings!
(KJV) 1 Timothy 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
(NASB) 1 Timothy 2:11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
(ESV) 1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
These 4 versions are the most widely used for Bible study. (There are others as well and if you have a favorite, I am sure it will show the same as you see above.) It cannot be denied what Paul states here. So we have 3 choices to make when reading this passage.
1) There is only one explanation - women are prohibited to have authority and to teach men.
2) Paul contradicts himself and so the Bible is translated incorrectly
3) A broader deeper look must be made in order to gain understanding from our exegesis of the passage.
Many of you will choose #1 and will stand firm on it. That is OK. I ask that you would keep an open mind on what I try and show here but if not, you are still my brother or sister in Christ and I still love you and we still both believe in His gospel. I think you may be missing out on some wonderful, powerful, and valid teaching and preaching on His Word by gifted women of God, but again, it is not a devisive or salvific point of opposition.
I think most of you are on the same page and have eliminated #2. If not, that is OK but is a topic for a different discussion.
So that leaves number 3. I am stating some guidelines and some core beliefs so that you can fully understand from where I am coming.
To start, I believe there is no errancy or mistranslation of the following scripture: (NIV) 2 Timothy 2:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
(If this is a point of contention for you than we probably will not agree on anything having to do with Biblical interpretation.) The all, includes Old Testament.
For the sake of this discussion, it is also important to understand these definitions as well. Universal command means that it is the same for all situations, cultures, and time. Pastoral command, guideline or request means that it is specific to a stated issue, church, culture, time period, or combinations of any of those situations.
For example, you would agree that Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. 5 Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. is a Universal command?
In Philemon 22 And one thing more: Prepare a guest room for me, because I hope to be restored to you in answer to your prayers. you can easily see this is Pastoral. If not, then you better go find Philemon's house and prepare a room for Paul.
I used some very easy examples as a way of understanding the point I am trying to make. They need to be understood because it makes a difference in how you might view Paul's writings on this topic.
I have already done a fairly extensive study on the historical and cultural factors which may have effected this passage and you can read those in a previous post,
https://holymackeralbatman.blogspot.com/2017/02/1-timothy-212-short-exploration-by.html
but for the sake of time and space I will not revisit all of what I posted there.
Unless other is needed, for the most part I will use the NIV (New International Version 2011) for scriptural references. In my hermeneutics I will be asking the questions: Is this Universal, or this Pastoral? In any exegesis, if there are other writings by the author, (and as we know Paul wrote most of the New Testament so there is not a short supply) we must examine them as well.
OK. So what are the flags in the 1 Timothy 2 passage that motivates me to take a bigger look? Well, I went into greater detail with the previously mentioned post; however, it was the first and loudest, flag for me. The Greek word Paul uses for authority in this passage is authentein. It is not used anywhere else in the Bible to describe or define authority. The typical word used by both Paul and Jesus Christ is exousia. Authentein, in the Koine Greek, is the negative use of authority, ie abusive or usurping authority. This starts to raise questions when you understand that the culture surrounding the church in Ephesus had strong matriarchal undertones along with the practice of women domineering men, emotionally, physically, and often sexually. This however, is not yet enough to depose the traditional prohibition of women having leadership positions in the church. In order to determine the universality of the passage we must look at other churches to whom Paul has written. I can say without a doubt that Paul did not want women to take abusive authority over men in ANY church, but I can also say that Paul did not want men to take an abusive authority over women in the church. He, in his letter to the Ephesians, commanded the men to love their wives as Christ loved the church and Christ never abuses the church.
Lets look at the letter he sent to the Corinthian church. This letter is often used as support for the prohibitionary view. So we must have due diligence and look at it as well.
1 Corinthians 11:1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ. 2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head. 7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice—nor do the churches of God.
I posted the whole passage. Hopefully, you will see why. The first thing I want to point out is in verse 5. Women were allowed to prophesy in Paul's churches. This means that they were prophets. Prophets both forth tell and foretell. I ask you, if God called a woman to be a prophet, which He obviously did, would He not give her the authority that comes along with speaking His words? Is there authority for a prophet? Male or female? Deborah was a judge and a prophetess. Judges 4-5 We know that the judges had authority and we know that the prophets had authority. It was that God given authority that made the people listen. Miriam, sister to Moses and Aaron, was also a prophetess (see Ex 15:20). So we can clearly state that prophets, male or female, were given authority and Paul allowed that.
Now since this passage is often used as a support for the prohibition of women in ministry we must look at the universality of it. Please be very aware that Universal is defined as holding true in every situation regardless of culture, people, economics, physical condition, environment, AND time. It is all inclusive. If we take that stance, then cancer patients who pray, or patients who have undergone brain surgery, etc., if they are female and their heads were shaved, they disgrace, their covering. Either, their husbands, or fathers, or whomever is to be defined as their cover. In the same token, soldiers on the battle front, who take time to pray while bombs falling and bullets flying, must remove their helmets to pray or they disgrace the Lord Jesus Christ. It also means that all the hippies (long haired men) all the yuppies (short haired women) disgraced God when they prayed. Really? It means as well, that women must wear hat or a scarf, or a bonnet when praying. It also means that men must take off their hats, dew rags, helmets, bandannas, and possibly when praying. IN AND UNDER ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. That is what a Universal definition of this passage would entail.
An interesting flip side to that thought would mean that women who prophesied in the church would be allowed to prophesy in any church including the church at Ephesus which was pastored by Timothy. This really throws a wrench in the "Universal" mix. Because under the auspices of Universal command, women were given authority in the Corinthian church to be prophetesses but could not have the authority to do so in the Ephesian church; therefore, Paul, contradicts himself which means that the Bible, the Word of God, contradicts itself. I don't think so.
I would maintain that these scriptural passages were Pastoral. Direction given to specific churches and their leaders for specific circumstances. Please don't mistake me. I am not stating that women are commanded to lead. I am stating that they are not forbidden from leading. I think that the Biblical discussions support and address most of leadership as being male, but I also firmly believe that women are not prohibited to lead, have authority, and teach men and women in the church.
So let's look at the Pastoral argument. Historically, we know that the church in Ephesus had an influx of believers who were steeped in the practices of women who dominated men, politically, emotionally, and physically as part of their culture. The women under this cultural upbringing thought they also because of his age and gender, thought that they could confront and defy Timothy as the pastor. If we were to see this as a Paul giving pastoral direction to both Timothy and the church in Ephesus it seems to align better with the rest of his writings. Certainly Paul did not want these practices to spread to other churches but they were not specifically addressed in his other letters.
The Corinthian church had other specific problems that Paul needed to address as well. In the case of women. The fashion of dress, as is the case even in today's society, was driven by the rich. Well the richest women in Corinth were the Temple prostitutes and they had a habit of advertising the way they dressed. The sex slaves that they employed in their trade also had a way of showing their availability. Short hair for women was one of the most common. Paul was trying to bring a sense of propriety in how the church was represented by its members and how they prayed and worshiped publicly. Is Paul in verse 3 also establishing a hierarchy? 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God. I believe he is but we must be careful in how we look at this hierarchy as well. If we take it as a direct vertical linearity, we bring confusion from verses 11 and 12 in that passage. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God. So how can we see that Paul is not contradicting himself? Ephesians 5 seems to support this as well. 1 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. 22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Paul uses the word "wife or wives" in this passage as well as husbands and is talking about that particular relationship and how it reflects the relationship to Christ and His Bride, the Church. I don't see it as a directive for male only dominance in leadership of the church. I do see men as being established as leaders in their households. Again, if we take the universal stance, it presents more problems than if we understand the pastoral and look through those eyes.
We must be careful when we attach the universal to all things in the text. Not every command is to be considered universal so we must also be careful how we use it. It is not a switch to be used whenever we want to apply it. The same goes for pastoral. We can't say that the 10 commandments were just pastoral and good only for the Old Testament Israel, which is a pastoral type of argument. They are universal. There are many things in scripture which are universal and all of the reason and thought behind the pastoral correction is universal.
Another look can be had if you do a word search on the Pauline epistles for the phrase "do not." You will find listings for both "I do not" as well as "do not." If you apply the Universal versus Pastoral command definitions to your findings you have some food for thought.
There is further discussion to be had on this topic and more debate to come forward. I only touched briefly on some of the big questions that are apparent. I did not want to cover all in this post because of the length and detail that the study requires; however. in the future, I will also post more as I delve further into it and as questions arise and I explore and learn more.
As with all things, I ask that you would seek first the guidance of the Holy Spirit and then read His Word for yourself. Blessings!
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